My belief system

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13 Apr 2019 13:58 - 13 Apr 2019 13:59 #337150 by Br. John
Replied by Br. John on topic My belief system

Why does anyone care? You don't and it does no harm to you either. Kyrin's critique doesn't do you any harm also, nor does it stop you from doing what you want to do. Why do you care?


I'm told I don't care then I'm asked why I care.

Founder of The Order
~
I am the Master Cylinder and I live on the moon.
Last edit: 13 Apr 2019 13:59 by Br. John.
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13 Apr 2019 14:23 #337151 by Gisteron
Replied by Gisteron on topic My belief system
My apology, I wasn't being clear. By "you don't" I meant that - much like Kyrin - you do not follow what ever third party's (be it Lenny's or Kyrin's) beliefs either, and just like Kyrin is not harmed or hindered by Kenny speaking his mind, neither are you harmed or hindered by her speaking hers. I did not mean to say that you do not care, and then to go on and ask why you do.

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13 Apr 2019 15:34 #337155 by Kyrin Wyldstar
Replied by Kyrin Wyldstar on topic My belief system
I will clarify myself. I think this is a fascinating story, one that has caused me to do research into some of its various historical aspects and that has furthered my education, so thanks for that. Where I find issue is in calling it a belief system? I think it is an amazing outline for a series of sci fi books or movies, ones that I would partake of eagerly. Hell the only critique in the treatise I would have is that it does not also contain ancient aliens. And such a work of legendary fiction could contain it's own universal wisdom that could be used in real life, much like Star Wars. But beyond that I find no value in treating it as actual reality in a true belief system. Its akin to believing the events in Star Wars actually happened somewhere far off a long time ago. In reality there is no evidence to support it or reason to "believe" it outside of irrational delusion.

This guns for hire, even if we're just dancing in the dark.
My Journals: Kyrin-Wyldstar

Associate Degree of Divinity - Earned July, 2017
Apprenticed to: Alan, Senan, Mendalicious
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13 Apr 2019 15:36 #337156 by ren
Replied by ren on topic My belief system


This is not a journal where everyone is commanded to stay out of, nor is this a sermon where everyone is commanded to either stay out or say "thanks for sharing"


Journals cannot be used as discussion threads unless the OP allows it, but contributions whether in the form of journal posts or sermons can certainly be catslysts for conversations. This isn't the temple of Kim Jong un.



I think what matters is to encourage more conversation, and what John is getting at isn't that the OP shouldn't be discussed, but that there is a way to get more out of it.... And that way is notoriously out of Kyrin's grasp, something she is aware of and happy to do something about.

Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth than lies.
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13 Apr 2019 15:56 #337157 by Carlos.Martinez3
Replied by Carlos.Martinez3 on topic My belief system

Lenny C wrote: This is an article with my relationshipto the force and all that I have learned. I will have a biography but not sure which forum to put it in.
Anyway here is the article it's quite long..
In ancient Egypt, the surviving histories reveal that the Jedi manifested as the Djedi (hence the name “Jedi”) which was a sect of the priesthood and Masters of the Force that protected the Pharaoh; and in Persia they were the Narts, guardians of a Holy Grail called the Nartmongue and the protectors of enlightened priest kings who lived at least one thousand years before King Arthur and his Knights of the Round Table.

The remarkable history and wisdom of these two early sects of “Jedi” Knights was first introduced to the West by the Knights Templar, who upon returning from the Middle East in the 13th and 14th centuries, distilled “Jedi” histo­ries learned from the Sufis into a series of lengthy Holy Grail legends. Within these pithy legends the Templars syn­thesized the powerful emperors and priest kings of the past into the enigmatic figure of the Fisher King, the resident of a Grail Castle and the owner of various manifestations of the Holy Grail. His well-being and the safekeeping of his castle’s Holy Grail relics was given over to an order of Knights of the Grail, who were a distillation of the early “Jedi” Knights from Egypt and Persia. But the Knights Templar let it be known that they were not just historians of the an­cient Masters of the Force; they were themselves a latter day version of “Jedi” Knights. This truth was boldly and au­thoritatively proclaimed in Parzival by Knight Wolfram von Eschenbach when he specifically referred to the Fisher King’s Holy Grail Knights as Templars. Parzival, as well as other historical references put forth in the Middle Ages re­garding the Templars, implied that the Knights had inherited wisdom of the Force that had been passed down to them almost directly from their ancient, antecedent “Jedi” Knights. Thus, from at least one perspective, the forma­tion of the Knights Templar in 1118 CE could be historically entitled the “Return of the Jedi”! But if this is true, what happened to the Templars’ “Jedi” wisdom? Does it still exist?

In recorded history, the Secrets of the Force of the “Jedi” Knights’ were first taught among the Egyptian “Jedi” or Djedi, who may have received them from a much earlier pre-historical “Jedi” Knight order, perhaps one from Atlan­tis. One Djedi priest mentioned in the Egyptian’s Westcar Papyrus is said to have possessed the key that opened the “secret chambers of the sanctuary of Thoth,” who many esoteric historians believe was a missionary and Master of the Force from Atlantis. Within his sanctuary were books authored by Thoth that covered in detail the physics behind ac­tivating and developing the Force through alchemy—the art that Thoth-Hermes would eventually become the recog­nized patron of throughout the world. Through Thoth’s alchemy, the esoteric symbol of which is the caduceus, a fu­ture Djedi could awaken the normally dormant “serpent” power, the fiery Force at the base of his spine, and then move it upwards to his head where it would culminate in supernatural powers and intuitive, gnostic wisdom. The proof that a Djedi had accomplished this alchemy is intrinsic to his name, which was, essentially, an honorific title. The Djed of Djedi denoted “column,” while the root word or sound Dj denoted “serpent.” Thus, a Djedi was one who had awakened the Dj or serpent at its seat and then raised it up his or her Djed “column” or spine to the head. Those Djedi that succeeded in this inner ascension could potentially become immortal, which is yet another meaning of Djedi. As the Serpent Force rises up the spine, its alchemical fire of transformation moves within every cell of the body and raises the frequency of human flesh to that of “immortal” pure energy. Because of the spine’s association with immortality, the Djed column or pillar became for the Egyptians a symbol of immortality, and they traditionally covered their mummies and sarcophagi with symbolic Djed images in hopes of achieving immortal life in the here­after.

Through raising the inner serpent power, the Djedi acquired an abundance of Force which could be used to per­form supernatural feats similar to those associated with Lucas’s Jedi. For example, the Djedi of the Westcar Papyrus who possessed the key to the secret chambers of Thoth was said to have acquired the power to reattach the severed heads of animals at will. Other Djedi are mentioned in Egyptian history as traversing the scorching Egyptian sands with only their magical staffs and/or becoming powerful magicians in the service of the Pharaohs. Some Djedi are found in the service of the Pharaoh that Moses and Aaron confronted in order to demand freedom for the Hebrews. At the Pharaoh’s command his Djedi magicians turned their staffs into live serpents, which represented the serpent power that each Djedi possessed. But Aaron’s staff also turned into a snake, albeit a much larger snake than those of the Djedi, and it proceeded to consume their smaller serpents, thus proving the superiority of his serpent power to theirs.

The wisdom of the Djedi that the Knights Templar learned about may have first entered the Middle East as early as the Exodus, since Menetho tells us that the Hebrew leader Moses had been initiated into all the secrets of Egypt’s priesthood during his formative years in the country. The wisdom of Djedi may have also arrived many years later when Dhul-Nun al-Misri traveled from Egypt to the Middle East after spending many years studying the alchemical hieroglyphs covering the temples and obelisks of Egypt. With the esoteric wisdom he discovered, Dhul-Nun al-Misri founded the Al-banna, the Sufi sect of “Freemasons.” According to the Sufi Idris Shah, the Al-banna were teachers of the Templars during the years the Knights resided in the Al-Aqsa Mosque on the Temple Mount. Much of the wisdom of alchemy and the Force that resulted from the Templar-Al-banna intercourse was later taken into the continent of Europe by Templars who assimilated it into fledgling Speculative Freemasonry.

The order of “Jedi” Knights known of by the Templars was the Order of the Nart Knights, Masters of the Force of the ancient Persian Empire. Possibly as old or older than the Djedi of Egypt, the Narts may have existed as early as King Jamshid, one of the incipient Persian kings of legend who ruled during the time of “Airyan Vaejahi,” the Persian Golden Age that some historians have placed as early as 20,000 BCE. Jamshid was a classic example of the Fisher King of Grail legend in that he suffered a fall from pride and lost his Force, or “Farr” as it was called in Persia, although he had previously adhered to a righteous path and been a renowned Master of the Force. Jamshid engendered a lineage of Farr-empowered priest kings that culminated in the highly spiritual Kayanid Dynasty founded by King Key-Khosrow, the “Persian King Arthur.” Records state that, like King Arthur, Key-Koshrow possessed knights (the “Narts”) who were associated with a Holy Grail (the “Nartmongue”) and conducted their meetings around a table similar to Arthur’s Round Table. The mystical legends of Key-Khosrow and his Narts were eventually compiled into the Nart Sagas during the later Persian Empire and have since been regarded as Persian counterparts to Europe’s Holy Grail legends. According to From Scythia to Camelot, the Nart Sagas may have first entered Europe with bands of Persian Sarmatian warriors who were in the hire of the Roman legions. The authors of this theory, Littleton and Malcor, make the interesting observation that King Arthur and his Knights may have themselves been Sarmatian sol­diers and members of a Roman legion stationed at what was Hadrians Wall with orders to protect England from the marauding Pics of Scotland. According to this possible scenario, following the downfall of the Roman Empire Arthur and his men would have been released from their Roman service, at which time Arthur would have become king of the newly liberated land of Britain and his fellow soldiers would have been transformed into the Knights of the Round Table. This alternate history of Arthur and his Knights was recently made into a major motion picture entitled “King Arthur” staring Clive Owen as the British monarch.

What little we know today of the Persian Narts suggests that these neo-Jedi Knights were continually seeking to increase their Force in order to become warrior adepts with a high level of spiritual purity and enlightenment. Only those whose dedication to king and country was immaculate could hope to increase their Farr to the degree needed in order to drink from the Nartmongue when it was passed around the Persian Round Table. Certain Narts increased their Farr to such a degree that they became the obvious choice to succeed an outgoing king. Some, like King Key-Lohrasp of the Kayanid Dynasty, became endowed with a mystical temperament and an abundance of gnostic insight. The mystical Key-Lohrasp eventually abdicated his “Fisher King” throne in favor of leading a purely mystical exis­tence deep within the lofty mountains of Persia.

The “Jedi” Secrets of the Force possessed by the early Persian kings and their Narts were preserved within Persian civilization as popular legend for many hundreds of years. Then, in the 11th century CE, Hasan-i-Sabah, the founder of the Order of Assassins that was to become a huge influence on the Knights Templar, revived the ancient Nart tradi­tion. He resurrected the Secrets of the Force and founded a cadre of knights to serve him. Hasan chose for his court the castle of Alamut, the “Eagles Nest,” which was located high in the Albourz Mountains, the region of northern Per­sia that had anciently been the seat of the Persian kings.

Hasan learned the Secrets of the Force both by studying the Nart legends and by traveling to Cairo in his younger years for the purpose of mastering nine mystical degrees of a Sufi mystery school centered within the city. After his graduation Hasan left Egypt and returned home to quickly establish himself as one of the greatest alchemists that Persia had ever seen. He subsequently founded his own mystery school of nine degrees, which eventually became known as the Order of the Assassins. The degrees of alchemical purification of Hasan’s school—which Hasan crypti­cally referred to as the nine steps of ascension up the mystical mountain of Kaf—assisted his Assassin Knights in awakening the inner Force and acquiring gnosis. Hasan’s manual for his mystery school, the Sargozast-i-Sayyid-na, provided a step-by-step guide to the alchemical practices that would lead an aspiring knight to the summit of Kaf.

Hasan’s alchemical Secrets of the Force were passed down to successive generations of Assassins, during which time they became known as the Teaching of the Resurrection. The greatest promoter of these teachings, and a fully enlightened Master of the Force in his own right, was the later Assassin Grand Master Rashid al-din Sinan of Syria. Sinan began his career as a common Assassin knight in Persia but eventually achieved enlightenment and an abun­dance of supernatural powers by adhering closely to Hasan’s alchemy. After being sent to govern the Assassins’ out­post in Syria, Sinan is said to have acquired the power to be able to see into the past or future, and for being able to go for indefinitely long periods without eating or drinking. His psychic ability was also legendary. When a letter was delivered to him it was said that Sinan would hold the unopened letter against his third eye for a moment and then promptly write down and dispatch a reply to the sender.

Through their encounters with Sinan and his knights the Templars, who had nearby castles in Syria, learned some of the Assassins’ Secrets of the Force. The Templars felt an affinity with the Assassins since they were both rene­gade orders of knights aspiring to alchemy and gnosis while being ostensible members of a fundamentalist religion. Sinan, whom the Templars came to call the “Old Man of the Mountains,” awed the Knights with his powers and they coveted his alchemy, which they eventually learned from both him and his knights, as well as from various other Sufi sects. As a compliment to what would eventually become the prodigious amount of Sufi teaching they acquired, the Knights Templar also inherited the gnostic teachings of the Johannite Gnostic Church which had been passed down to them from a series of grand masters beginning with John the Baptist, Jesus, John the Apostle, and Mary Magda­lene.

The Knights Templar would subsequently create their own Holy Grail mystery school tradition comprised of nu­merous levels. The Force, the Knights Templar were to discover, was the true “Holy Grail.” Although the Knights may have possessed certain physical objects which were ascribed the power of a Holy Grail, including the Holy Shroud and perhaps even the cup that Jesus drank from during the Last Supper, they discovered from their Sufi teachers that what made an object a Holy Grail was its accompanying Force or Holy Spirit power. It was this Force that activated and drove the process of alchemy within a Knight and eventually opened him to his inner gnostic wis­dom and supernatural power.

The Templars’ Secrets of the Force eventually passed into some of the Secret Societies of Europe, including the Rosicrucians and Freemasons, and for awhile this wisdom survived in its purity. But it would eventually become grossly distorted, hidden or completely forgotten, and the era of the “Jedi” Knights would come to a grinding halt. But now, certain Templar organizations are making a concerted effort to resurrect the “Jedi” Knight wisdom of Egypt, Persia, and the early Templars. The old gnostic and alchemical rites are beginning to be observed again and the hidden alchemical texts are being pursued in places like Rosslyn Chapel and Languedoc in France.


As a modern day Jeddist - I love to read when others have a great story to tell. I love when others stand and deliver their story and testimonies. The freedom to pick and choose is a gift not to many take but every person can have if they choose. As in life... you will find some who are like and some who are not like you. For those who make those decisions of choice ( pun intended) the the numbers get even smaller. Thank you so much for sharing your story my friend. My in box is always open if you ever have need or want to touch base.

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13 Apr 2019 20:19 - 13 Apr 2019 21:29 #337162 by Rosalyn J
Replied by Rosalyn J on topic My belief system

Kyrin Wyldstar wrote: I will clarify myself. I think this is a fascinating story, one that has caused me to do research into some of its various historical aspects and that has furthered my education, so thanks for that. Where I find issue is in calling it a belief system? I think it is an amazing outline for a series of sci fi books or movies, ones that I would partake of eagerly. Hell the only critique in the treatise I would have is that it does not also contain ancient aliens. And such a work of legendary fiction could contain it's own universal wisdom that could be used in real life, much like Star Wars. But beyond that I find no value in treating it as actual reality in a true belief system. Its akin to believing the events in Star Wars actually happened somewhere far off a long time ago. In reality there is no evidence to support it or reason to "believe" it outside of irrational delusion.


I second Kyrin. Its why I asked how it informs your path/practice. As it were, as a Christian Jedi, to me, it isn't so important that certain things happened, or happened as they are written. That, to me, takes away from the lesson of the macro and/or micro story and makes it more difficult to develop my belief and my experience, or as I might say, to "get a fresh word"

Don't let your wounds get in the way-Bishop Vashti McKenzie
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Youth Minister
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Last edit: 13 Apr 2019 21:29 by Rosalyn J.
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15 Apr 2019 00:47 - 15 Apr 2019 00:50 #337186 by Adder
Replied by Adder on topic My belief system
Somebody having a belief system is not the same thing as them asserting it as true IMO. Spirituality is personal, not philosophical.
What do I mean... belief systems seem to enable decisions to act, by suspending a type of disbelief called confusion. A belief system then can be used as an instrument to motivate action in circumstance.

So then irrationality of it is only a relevant thing if its usage causes conflicts with reality. The conflicting of labels is wholly irrelevant if its not part of the usage, its more about the meaning of the labels in their application. Otherwise its just semantic echo chambering normality, or worse some particular dogma. I'd encourage colorful belief systems if they are developed in trial and error and tell people not to worry what others think of it, but to ensure it's effective and not leading down a path of delusion - which is a real danger when creating ones own model of interpreting reality.

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Last edit: 15 Apr 2019 00:50 by Adder.
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15 Apr 2019 17:03 #337199 by Kyrin Wyldstar
Replied by Kyrin Wyldstar on topic My belief system
And yet the very definition of the term belief is one in which an assertion of truth is required. The actual truth is that Lenny did none of this “research” and I find it incredibly deceitful that he has passed this off as his own work. In reality this is an article written in a pseudo-science magazine called Atlantis Rising by an author named Mark Amaru Pinkham and published in 2009.

atlantisrisingmagazine.com/article/the-return-of-the-djedi/

Nothing in this article contains the slightest bit of truth. There was never any such thing as a priesthood of Djedi in Egypt. Djedi was the name of a fictional character, a magician in an ancient Egyptian story in the Westcar Papyrus. The Nart Sagas had simple origins in Persia but were actually developed in the northern Russian Caucasus regions. They were mythological tales who's sagas featured archetypal characters such as the trickster, the warrior, mother fertility, creator of fire and so on, similar to the Norse Gods. Of course places like Atlantis and people like King Author never existed except in mythology and legend either. I could go on... This entire “belief system” is not only stolen and plagiarized, it’s not based in any fact whatsoever.

This guns for hire, even if we're just dancing in the dark.
My Journals: Kyrin-Wyldstar

Associate Degree of Divinity - Earned July, 2017
Apprenticed to: Alan, Senan, Mendalicious
Tribute to Senan: My Friend
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15 Apr 2019 17:22 #337201 by Rosalyn J
Replied by Rosalyn J on topic My belief system
Aww! Dangit

Don't let your wounds get in the way-Bishop Vashti McKenzie
Senior Knight, Senior Ordained Minister
Youth Minister
Editor in Chief of the TOTJO Times
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. Submit articles
Teaching Maitre: Alexandre Orion
How Am I Doing , My Commitment
Kyber,Freja Saol-Wasser, Tobias Giesel, ZealotX,and Jhannuzs

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The following user(s) said Thank You: Carlos.Martinez3
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15 Apr 2019 18:52 #337204 by ZealotX
Replied by ZealotX on topic My belief system
The djed is one of the more ancient and commonly found symbols in ancient Egyptian religion. It is a pillar-like symbol in Egyptian hieroglyphs representing stability. It is associated with the creator god Ptah and Osiris, the Egyptian god of the afterlife, the underworld, and the dead. It is commonly understood to represent his spine

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Djed

The djed may originally have been a fertility cult related pillar made from reeds or sheaves[3] - Pinch, Geraldine (2002). Handbook of Egyptian mythology. Santa Barbara, Calif.: ABC-CLIO. p. 127. ISBN 978-1-57607-242-4.

From this you can put a lot of the same story together. And when I say story... it's not really that much different from the bible. There is no reason to canonize or make into doctrine the term "belief system" as to having any significant meaning outside of one's own head and critical analysis. People can believe whatever they want, whether it involves holy cows or unicorns or dancing satyrs.

The story that was shared (and thank you btw) blends a number of myths and legends. Some may or may not be true. However, I feel like some of the language used to describe his story was more of a concealed attack on the "worthiness" of said story and it's credibility to be a belief system. Whatever one thinks the OP said "My belief system". So, to me, that deserves a reasonable amount of respect (due to the person), just as one would not confront Jews or Christians regarding the bible's borrowing of myths and construction of legends. Doing so simply offends the believer. And you get lost in the critical analysis of the literal nature of the story rather than any greater revelations. I think Moses was a mass murderer but if a Christian is telling me a story about Moses it's more of courtesy to hold back my views. Now if they say "this is the truth and you should believe it too" then that opens the door for me to tell them why I cannot believe what they do. But the rule/courtesy should be that one should need to be invited before taking such a tact.

Now if you have questions there's nothing wrong with that but they don't have to be framed in a negative or offensive manner. There is no religion that I know of that cannot be parsed and picked to pieces but at the same time Lucas combine many religions in his development of the movie and, it is my understanding, that pattern carries over into Jediism.
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